that is exactly how I came up with my unproven theory of the 10:1 ratio of men and women needed for a successful show. If I need 300 people at a show I do my best to get 30 mildy attractive women and the rest is easy.

Hey why can't I quote? (that last post was meant for Seekay)

I was going to hold my tongue but I couldn't help myself! The reality is if your not getting any action from playing in a band, either your band is terrible or you're just dang ugly or a combination of the two! Hey, at least you can work on the band part!

in the interest of calling a duck a duck, because no one gets up off their ass and completes any of their big plans to promote their own big rock show. it's easier to just call erick or vincent or whoever, because all that soundsystem and security and booze and shit is all in place.

these clubs have, either excellently or poorly, handled all of the details that everyone else gets lost in, or can't afford.

i get offers all the time from people who want me to design websites. it would be serious cash and there are some nifty big shortcuts i could take. but i don't, because i want to draw and paint and work on those skills, and i know i have no interest in any of the details involved with webdesign. am i happy with the sites that my logos and illos end up on? almost never. am i going to do it all myself? fuck no.

YES! last week was a nightmare, i got torn a new asshole by a person who didn't pay for the work i did for them. i suppose i should write an article. but i don't because it'll only ever been met with indifference. no one is going to feel sad for me.

and because you can't or won't. and they can bitch all they want, they own the club and are approached by a newspaper. you/we do not own a club, therefore we... post on message boards? hahaha. the reason they are asked what they think by a newspaper is because they are the centers of their music community, simply by virtue of stepping up, making the calls and signing the checks. shit, if they feel like it, they can say that the musicians need to wear uniforms and stand on their head onstage. it'd probably be pretty bad for business but it's within their prerogative to do so.

That's all directly on point. I don't mean to dismiss this topic at all. What I am tiring of is the all talk, no action from some people.

The networking events, Volcanoboy's growth are evidence of NEW thinking and NEW energy coming into play.

I have no problems stealing ideas from people who don't use them. A good idea is a good idea only if it is in action. I for one, think idea men are full of shit and need to get out of the way.

How about this for one-
I spent three years doing for the scene; hosting open mikes all over town, organizing and running the folk festival, going to Worcester rising meetings, helping organize the music at stART and it's fund raisers. You know what I found in doing all of that, frustration, exhaustion and my music was suffering for it. I made a conscience decision to stop all of that and focus my attention on the Bee's Knees and nothing else in the city. I say thins because what is lacking as well as all of the other things stated, are people who are involved that are not musicians. The Brian Goslows, Barry Dennis', Michael Creamers. Visual artists have Tina Zlody, what do musicians have? Yes, we have some people who host web sites which is very important now a days, but where are the folks that help with the promotion and help set up shows? My life would be a hell of a lot easier if I had someone to help with the non music issues.

By the way, I play in clubs because that is what I do. I have been a musicians for as long as I can rememebr and one of the venue for the music I play now is in rock clubs. If I was still conducting, I would be in concert halls and theaters. I'm a musician; I don't know anything else.

And the last reason I would ever be doing this is to get laid. I have never even had a girl apprroach me because I was a musician, let alone get laid because of it.

I would like to think that I would be paying them the standard 12-15%, but I think you are right about the money. I guess I just get sick of all of this talk when I am busting my ass to promote, going to mixers and clubs to meet people and get people out. I know I am not the only one, but it just gets frustrating to hear people bitch about all of this stuff and take no action. It's kind of like bitching about politics and not voting; you have no right.

Fair enough. I guess it comes down to the "love of the game" mentality that the musicians already have. Dickie seems like that kind of guy. I think he also enjoys how cool it is to be the manager of a band. Like all of us, he's an attention hound, but who isn't that is successful in this business?

I never said there wasn't money in promoting. I said the opposite. A good promoter facilitates a successful show and reaps the reward. A lot of people win when it is done right. I think that the idea you will come across someone who just loves to do it and will do it effectively is wishful thinking. I find that wishfulness to be pervasive throughout the music scene. It comes down to what you really want. Do you want to play to more people? Have more people at your shows? or do you really want to make the money that would result?

Danimal makes money on the belief that you want to play to more people. He facilitates that very nicely.

Let's say that I was putting on a show. A guaranteed sellout at Ralph's, a few hundred people at least. I offered it to your band. The pay is $100.

Do you do it?

ps. 45 minute slot, no free beer and the drummer needs to keep his shirt on (if it's a female I will wave that)

Barry you might have been too busy shining your bag of Dice to read this but I said the pay is $100. Not, you pay me to play Ralph's.

It was hypothetical.

If a band said yes to that deal.

Which they should if they are not in a position to get 300+ people in front of them themselves.

They would in fact be paying a promoter far more than 15%.

the comments in news are not set up like a message board where you can easily quote the person above. You can view the thread in different ways (threaded, nested, flat) and some people prefer that. It is set to Flat right now. If you want to quote someone the best way to do it is press the button and paste the text you want to quote. Like this....
Quote:

Duncan...why can't I quote here?

Duncan, you are the best, I don't know why I give you shit, I know I can't handle the repercussions

I guess the title of this would have been better worded, "What do bands hope to gain by playing clubs."
If all you are out for is a good time on a Saturday night and your idea of a good time is playing to your friends about every six weeks than yeah, playing at those places is great, but what else does one hope to gain?

As I stated once already my point was why do musicians play in clubs that don't give them ANYTHING in return except a place to play? Michael what are your reasons for playing out, yeah it is what you do, but why do you choose to play the places that you play and not play at say, Hokey's in Oxford?

Duncan...if Danimal proved one thing it's that a promoter can make money.

I got involved with TCS/Ralphs/Bowlers years back because I felt passion for the music. I didn't know there was a "Scene" in fact I don't think there was one back then.
I have said this before, In the early 90's you didn't see members of the Curtain Society going to support Public Works or Black Rose Garden. Bonehead fans were not at Puddle shows. The exception was Roger because He produced a lot or bands.Bands were competitive with each other and I thought that was Great.
That drove me to work hard for the bands I promoted...Public Works headlined Ralphs on a weekend, well i am going to do whatever I need to so the Curtain Society can headline...and get paid more. Rose was on the cover of the Worcester Phoenix....I had to top that by getting a full color photo and a Feature story in the Worcester T+G. I promoted because I loved it and I was driven to do what I had to do to get the bands I worked for noticed.

IMO, there are people who could do a lot of good for bands, clubs, and music in general if they got off message boards and actually DID something and didn't worry about the money. Do it because you love it, do it because you want to see the music scene thrive.

I would do it again in a heartbeat if I felt the same Passion I feel for the Curtain Society for any other band but sadly I don't.